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	<title>Comments on: Colloidal Silver &#8211; A Safe Treatment For Lyme Disease?</title>
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	<description>News and resources for neurological Lyme disease and co-infections.</description>
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		<title>By: New Colloidal Silver for Lyme Disease &#124; About Lyme Disease</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-8564</link>
		<dc:creator>New Colloidal Silver for Lyme Disease &#124; About Lyme Disease</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 14:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Colloidal Silver – A Safe Treatment For Lyme Disease? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Colloidal Silver – A Safe Treatment For Lyme Disease? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David AuBuchon</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-8159</link>
		<dc:creator>David AuBuchon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, when evaporing CS it goes from clear to brown eventually.  There is no reason to believe a more concentrated solution like this is more effective per mass of silver ingested.  I was just trying it &quot;just in case&quot;.  

I have not tried to make say 40PPM CS this way.  Perhaps it is worth a try.  It should be evaporated slowly to concentrate it.  If it is still clear at the end, then perhaps the ion concentration has increased.  I cannot be sure of this though.

At home, you cannot make better than about 15 PPM with the better generators.  

It is the maximum current density (not the maximum current) that matters.  And this critical number will be different depending on the geometry of each different generator.  So I could not tell you at all what it is.  You just have to try lots of currents.  

I think your explanation about AgOH is correct (at least in my understanding).

The thing to look for that indicates you are going in the right direction with regards to making higher ion content is that when you are finished making the CS, the measurable drop in conductance will be much less over the next couple days than the measurable drop one usually sees with a generator.   This indicates less AgOH was formed (meaning you are brewing under the Nernst Threshold for longer).

A Hanna Pure Water Tester can measure conductance and approximate PPM quite well.  You can read about that in my book.

Yes, an osmotic thing might an interesting factor to consider also.  

David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, when evaporing CS it goes from clear to brown eventually.  There is no reason to believe a more concentrated solution like this is more effective per mass of silver ingested.  I was just trying it &#8220;just in case&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I have not tried to make say 40PPM CS this way.  Perhaps it is worth a try.  It should be evaporated slowly to concentrate it.  If it is still clear at the end, then perhaps the ion concentration has increased.  I cannot be sure of this though.</p>
<p>At home, you cannot make better than about 15 PPM with the better generators.  </p>
<p>It is the maximum current density (not the maximum current) that matters.  And this critical number will be different depending on the geometry of each different generator.  So I could not tell you at all what it is.  You just have to try lots of currents.  </p>
<p>I think your explanation about AgOH is correct (at least in my understanding).</p>
<p>The thing to look for that indicates you are going in the right direction with regards to making higher ion content is that when you are finished making the CS, the measurable drop in conductance will be much less over the next couple days than the measurable drop one usually sees with a generator.   This indicates less AgOH was formed (meaning you are brewing under the Nernst Threshold for longer).</p>
<p>A Hanna Pure Water Tester can measure conductance and approximate PPM quite well.  You can read about that in my book.</p>
<p>Yes, an osmotic thing might an interesting factor to consider also.  </p>
<p>David</p>
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		<title>By: Romain</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-8156</link>
		<dc:creator>Romain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/?p=22#comment-8156</guid>
		<description>PS : I think that if it&#039;s the hypothetic metalloproteins contained in the saliva that makes the silver more active in the body, the concentration of silver would not make a difference.

But maybe a difference of concentration could make a difference at passing the muquous membranes. Like an osmotic thing, and a better penetration with a greater concentration. 

I think It&#039;s an important phenomena. Brown tobacco goes this way in blood when you don&#039;t breath it, like pipe, cigarillos...

The best technique is still by the way to inject it directly into the veins, but it&#039;s a little bit hardcore style ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS : I think that if it&#8217;s the hypothetic metalloproteins contained in the saliva that makes the silver more active in the body, the concentration of silver would not make a difference.</p>
<p>But maybe a difference of concentration could make a difference at passing the muquous membranes. Like an osmotic thing, and a better penetration with a greater concentration. </p>
<p>I think It&#8217;s an important phenomena. Brown tobacco goes this way in blood when you don&#8217;t breath it, like pipe, cigarillos&#8230;</p>
<p>The best technique is still by the way to inject it directly into the veins, but it&#8217;s a little bit hardcore style <img src='http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Romain</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-8155</link>
		<dc:creator>Romain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/?p=22#comment-8155</guid>
		<description>Hi,

It&#039;s very interesting David!

I am not english, so I don&#039;t understand exactly : What you say is that the solution of silver become brown at 300ppm? So before, it stays clear? It is good to use this method to produce 40 ppm silver?

I setup my generator to not exced 1mA of current. I don&#039;t have here the surfaces of my electrodes (it&#039;s not so big, it&#039;s wires of 10/15 cm in water and like 1.5mm thick). And my method is not very accurate but by taste i think I made a concentration higher than 20 ppm. And the solution was still clear.

I didn&#039;t knew that the conductivity reach a threshold at a time.
And so if I understand well, the thing that make a silver solution unstable is the number of AgOH molecules that tend to clump? If the silver is made perfectly with much ions than AgOH molecules it as less tendancy to become yellowish with time and light?
With your explaination I understand best the interest to add a stirrer in the recipient.

If you don&#039;t want to keep it secret, what are the scale orders of current and surface to use to obtain this kind of reaction?

Romain</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s very interesting David!</p>
<p>I am not english, so I don&#8217;t understand exactly : What you say is that the solution of silver become brown at 300ppm? So before, it stays clear? It is good to use this method to produce 40 ppm silver?</p>
<p>I setup my generator to not exced 1mA of current. I don&#8217;t have here the surfaces of my electrodes (it&#8217;s not so big, it&#8217;s wires of 10/15 cm in water and like 1.5mm thick). And my method is not very accurate but by taste i think I made a concentration higher than 20 ppm. And the solution was still clear.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t knew that the conductivity reach a threshold at a time.<br />
And so if I understand well, the thing that make a silver solution unstable is the number of AgOH molecules that tend to clump? If the silver is made perfectly with much ions than AgOH molecules it as less tendancy to become yellowish with time and light?<br />
With your explaination I understand best the interest to add a stirrer in the recipient.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t want to keep it secret, what are the scale orders of current and surface to use to obtain this kind of reaction?</p>
<p>Romain</p>
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		<title>By: David AuBuchon</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-8154</link>
		<dc:creator>David AuBuchon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 20:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/?p=22#comment-8154</guid>
		<description>There are many many factors in effectiveness if the body.  The immune systems interaction with silver, the route of administration, the type of silver supplements, the concentration and dose, etc, could all factor in at the same time.  Also, just because you ingest something in one form, does not mean it stays in that form in the body.  Silver can exist in several different states in the body, and all play a role.

When you swallow orally, it is always a good idea to hold sublingual for a minute first.

The saliva contains metalloprotiens that may grab, protect, and deliver silver ions in the body.  This is one possibility with the sublingual working.  There are so many questions though.

I have evaporated CS to make it more concentrated.  I took about 10PPM CS jars and reduced it by a factor of 30 to make 300PPM silver content.  It turns brown by that time.  You have massive agglomeration (clumping of particles) by that time are of a size that due to various interactions with light create to the naked eye a brown color.  Ingesting it upset my stomach and did not kill any bugs.  


Home CS generators at current cannot make more than about 15 or at best 20PPM.  26PPM is likely the theoretical limit that one can achieve even in an idealized world.  

The main secret to removing this limit of 26PPM is to use an ultra low current and take a very long time to make the brew.  It is very difficult to do in practice and the guy that is working on it is basically working on it constantly.  There is something called the Nernst diffusion layer.  It is a super dense layer of ions just around both electrodes.  One electrode is blanketed in silver ions and the other in hydroxide ions.  When some of these ions migrate across to the opposite electrodes respectively, they cannot pass through the Nernst layer and reach the electrode.  They instead combine to form AgOH.  These AgOH molecules then clump together and form particles.  These are what the particles are in CS.  They are not metallic silver.   

However there is a threshhold current density under which the nernst diffusion layer never gets dense enough to force this reaction of ions.  Without out this reaction, there is nothing to keep an infinite amount of silver ions from entering the solution, in theory.  In ordinary CS generators, at some point, this threshold is exceeded, and the further silver ions you add to the solution just end up going towards making more AgOH.  This is why the conductance peaks at some point during production.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many many factors in effectiveness if the body.  The immune systems interaction with silver, the route of administration, the type of silver supplements, the concentration and dose, etc, could all factor in at the same time.  Also, just because you ingest something in one form, does not mean it stays in that form in the body.  Silver can exist in several different states in the body, and all play a role.</p>
<p>When you swallow orally, it is always a good idea to hold sublingual for a minute first.</p>
<p>The saliva contains metalloprotiens that may grab, protect, and deliver silver ions in the body.  This is one possibility with the sublingual working.  There are so many questions though.</p>
<p>I have evaporated CS to make it more concentrated.  I took about 10PPM CS jars and reduced it by a factor of 30 to make 300PPM silver content.  It turns brown by that time.  You have massive agglomeration (clumping of particles) by that time are of a size that due to various interactions with light create to the naked eye a brown color.  Ingesting it upset my stomach and did not kill any bugs.  </p>
<p>Home CS generators at current cannot make more than about 15 or at best 20PPM.  26PPM is likely the theoretical limit that one can achieve even in an idealized world.  </p>
<p>The main secret to removing this limit of 26PPM is to use an ultra low current and take a very long time to make the brew.  It is very difficult to do in practice and the guy that is working on it is basically working on it constantly.  There is something called the Nernst diffusion layer.  It is a super dense layer of ions just around both electrodes.  One electrode is blanketed in silver ions and the other in hydroxide ions.  When some of these ions migrate across to the opposite electrodes respectively, they cannot pass through the Nernst layer and reach the electrode.  They instead combine to form AgOH.  These AgOH molecules then clump together and form particles.  These are what the particles are in CS.  They are not metallic silver.   </p>
<p>However there is a threshhold current density under which the nernst diffusion layer never gets dense enough to force this reaction of ions.  Without out this reaction, there is nothing to keep an infinite amount of silver ions from entering the solution, in theory.  In ordinary CS generators, at some point, this threshold is exceeded, and the further silver ions you add to the solution just end up going towards making more AgOH.  This is why the conductance peaks at some point during production.</p>
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		<title>By: Romain</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-8153</link>
		<dc:creator>Romain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/?p=22#comment-8153</guid>
		<description>By the way if somebody is interested, I can put the plans of the machine somewhere. But it has to be good in soldering to do it, and it upside down the brain to place the components. But except that it&#039;s simple to make ^^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way if somebody is interested, I can put the plans of the machine somewhere. But it has to be good in soldering to do it, and it upside down the brain to place the components. But except that it&#8217;s simple to make ^^</p>
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		<title>By: Romain</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-8152</link>
		<dc:creator>Romain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/?p=22#comment-8152</guid>
		<description>Hum, Ok.
It&#039;s interesting. I heard of people taking it sublingually. When I was taking it I was letting it under my tongue. But I swallowed it after, to put all the chances on my side, lol.

The fact that by this way it doesn&#039;t pass by the stomach could explain the difference in efficacity. It goes directly in the blood without beeing altered by gastric suc. 
Personally I tried taking it with nebulizer. I was doing that with mesosilver. The result is not very conclusive, it take too much time to ingest even a little dose.

How time do you have to let it under the tongue to work?
And does somebody tried with classic 20PPM? It works less than 40PPM? 
I can imagine it could be more efficient 40 ppm than 20 ppm this way. 

One time I though to make evaporate 20ppm silver solution to make it more concentrated, just to see, lol. But I never tried.
With good homemade machine you can do already well concentrated silver. I estimate it to 25/30 ppm. But if it&#039;s let at the sun it become yellow fast, it&#039;s a little bit unstable. But it&#039;s good if you drink it fast and the bottle put in the dark.

Can you tell me what is the main principle to make more concentrated silver? I&#039;m interested. I don&#039;t take it anymore, I take now classic drugs, but my brother and a friend of me take it and could be interested. I made my own automatic machine to make silver, it works well. If you want to exchange things... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hum, Ok.<br />
It&#8217;s interesting. I heard of people taking it sublingually. When I was taking it I was letting it under my tongue. But I swallowed it after, to put all the chances on my side, lol.</p>
<p>The fact that by this way it doesn&#8217;t pass by the stomach could explain the difference in efficacity. It goes directly in the blood without beeing altered by gastric suc.<br />
Personally I tried taking it with nebulizer. I was doing that with mesosilver. The result is not very conclusive, it take too much time to ingest even a little dose.</p>
<p>How time do you have to let it under the tongue to work?<br />
And does somebody tried with classic 20PPM? It works less than 40PPM?<br />
I can imagine it could be more efficient 40 ppm than 20 ppm this way. </p>
<p>One time I though to make evaporate 20ppm silver solution to make it more concentrated, just to see, lol. But I never tried.<br />
With good homemade machine you can do already well concentrated silver. I estimate it to 25/30 ppm. But if it&#8217;s let at the sun it become yellow fast, it&#8217;s a little bit unstable. But it&#8217;s good if you drink it fast and the bottle put in the dark.</p>
<p>Can you tell me what is the main principle to make more concentrated silver? I&#8217;m interested. I don&#8217;t take it anymore, I take now classic drugs, but my brother and a friend of me take it and could be interested. I made my own automatic machine to make silver, it works well. If you want to exchange things&#8230; <img src='http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: David AuBuchon</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-8146</link>
		<dc:creator>David AuBuchon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/?p=22#comment-8146</guid>
		<description>Hi Romain,

That is exactly some of the wrong information I have on my site that I was mentioning needs &quot;global revision&quot;.  Good eye catching it.  Most people think that drinking twice of a say 10PPM solution is the same as drinking once of a 20PPM solution.  I had also concluded that at the time of writing the website also.  Know I know that it is actually incorrect.  There are some anecdotes of people not getting well with homemade CS taken in large amounts, then getting well with taking this higher 40PPM brew sublingually (without even swallowing).  A very bizarre observation that raises a lot of questions, and I still am trying to make sense of it.  

If I came out with such a generator, it would be same price or cheaper as other generators.  Besides, there will be complete plans made available to build it yourself if you wanted.  I am also the kind of person who would give total cost transparency, and actually tell you what the actual cost of materials is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Romain,</p>
<p>That is exactly some of the wrong information I have on my site that I was mentioning needs &#8220;global revision&#8221;.  Good eye catching it.  Most people think that drinking twice of a say 10PPM solution is the same as drinking once of a 20PPM solution.  I had also concluded that at the time of writing the website also.  Know I know that it is actually incorrect.  There are some anecdotes of people not getting well with homemade CS taken in large amounts, then getting well with taking this higher 40PPM brew sublingually (without even swallowing).  A very bizarre observation that raises a lot of questions, and I still am trying to make sense of it.  </p>
<p>If I came out with such a generator, it would be same price or cheaper as other generators.  Besides, there will be complete plans made available to build it yourself if you wanted.  I am also the kind of person who would give total cost transparency, and actually tell you what the actual cost of materials is.</p>
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		<title>By: Romain</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-8145</link>
		<dc:creator>Romain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/?p=22#comment-8145</guid>
		<description>Hi David,

I am not agree with what you say : &quot;PPM is a critical factor in effectiveness. I am hopeful this could really change the game.&quot;

What is the interest to take or make 40ppm silver (except selling it more expansive to people) given that if you make 20ppm silver you just have to drink two times more to have the same effect than one single dose of 40ppm silver?  The cost of the distilled water?

You say it by yourself in the document of your link!
&quot;The point to understand here is that some websites will claim that the PPM of an EIS-LV product will determine the effectiveness. This is not precise. It is actually determined by the total mass of silver ingested, which is determined by both the PPM of the product as well as the volume of the product ingested.&quot;


And I also disagree on the chapter &quot;What is the most important quality to look for in an EIS-LV product or generator?&quot;
&quot;There is only one essential metric to consider when choosing an EIS-LV product. This metric is simply the total mass of silver you get per dollar you spend.&quot;

It&#039;s maybe true for the silver product, but not at all for a generator!
A good silver generator as to have a current limiter circuit, and to be easy to use an automatic stop at the concentration needed! And even better, a stirrer to mix the water during production.

Sorry to be a little bit aggressive, but...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>I am not agree with what you say : &#8220;PPM is a critical factor in effectiveness. I am hopeful this could really change the game.&#8221;</p>
<p>What is the interest to take or make 40ppm silver (except selling it more expansive to people) given that if you make 20ppm silver you just have to drink two times more to have the same effect than one single dose of 40ppm silver?  The cost of the distilled water?</p>
<p>You say it by yourself in the document of your link!<br />
&#8220;The point to understand here is that some websites will claim that the PPM of an EIS-LV product will determine the effectiveness. This is not precise. It is actually determined by the total mass of silver ingested, which is determined by both the PPM of the product as well as the volume of the product ingested.&#8221;</p>
<p>And I also disagree on the chapter &#8220;What is the most important quality to look for in an EIS-LV product or generator?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;There is only one essential metric to consider when choosing an EIS-LV product. This metric is simply the total mass of silver you get per dollar you spend.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s maybe true for the silver product, but not at all for a generator!<br />
A good silver generator as to have a current limiter circuit, and to be easy to use an automatic stop at the concentration needed! And even better, a stirrer to mix the water during production.</p>
<p>Sorry to be a little bit aggressive, but&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David AuBuchon</title>
		<link>http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/colloidal-silver-a-safe-treatment-for-lyme-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-7191</link>
		<dc:creator>David AuBuchon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2011 23:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/?p=22#comment-7191</guid>
		<description>Ive literally written the book on colloidal silver.  And it is so frustrating how complicated a topic silver is, as it really is in my opinion the first things most lyme patients should try.  Saved my life.  In fact it still is keeping me alive.  I have yet to see a single site that has entirely correct info on CS, including my own.  I am currently going through what my high school english teachers would call ``global revision`` of the CS book, and hope it will actually be the first place on the web that presents ALL valuable views about everything CS related.  It will probably be another 6 months before I release a massively revised and expanded version of the book.

The premade silver product I would try first for lyme and co is called Silver 100.  Besides that, I would make it myself with a generator.  

I am currently working with some people who have succeeded in making silver ions at 40PPM.  Current technology only allows up to about 22PPM, as in the product Argentyn23.  If you make it at home, you can really only get like 10 or 15 PPM.  I think that 40PPM could increase to 100PPM, as we fine tune the process also.  Long term, I will be releasing this kind of generator.  PPM is a critical factor in effectiveness.  I am hopeful this could really change the game.

http://scientificliving.net/2011/02/the-ultimate-guide-to-colloidal-silver-colloidal-silver-generators-and-jello-2/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ive literally written the book on colloidal silver.  And it is so frustrating how complicated a topic silver is, as it really is in my opinion the first things most lyme patients should try.  Saved my life.  In fact it still is keeping me alive.  I have yet to see a single site that has entirely correct info on CS, including my own.  I am currently going through what my high school english teachers would call &#8220;global revision&#8220; of the CS book, and hope it will actually be the first place on the web that presents ALL valuable views about everything CS related.  It will probably be another 6 months before I release a massively revised and expanded version of the book.</p>
<p>The premade silver product I would try first for lyme and co is called Silver 100.  Besides that, I would make it myself with a generator.  </p>
<p>I am currently working with some people who have succeeded in making silver ions at 40PPM.  Current technology only allows up to about 22PPM, as in the product Argentyn23.  If you make it at home, you can really only get like 10 or 15 PPM.  I think that 40PPM could increase to 100PPM, as we fine tune the process also.  Long term, I will be releasing this kind of generator.  PPM is a critical factor in effectiveness.  I am hopeful this could really change the game.</p>
<p><a href="http://scientificliving.net/2011/02/the-ultimate-guide-to-colloidal-silver-colloidal-silver-generators-and-jello-2/" rel="nofollow">http://scientificliving.net/2011/02/the-ultimate-guide-to-colloidal-silver-colloidal-silver-generators-and-jello-2/</a></p>
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